Curse

lyra_song · Nov 11, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaquira

Like mozes parting the waters.

Like someone with a heavily contagious disease running through a crowd.

Zealot's Fire is cheaper.

Cast it with a 20% enchant mod and just heal yourself when bad guys get close...

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinJin Kahn

Ok, just tested it, they dont run from cyclone axe, or any other attack(ignite arrow) but they do run from anything classed as a spell that hits more then 1 target even if it's onyl single use (fireball, meteor).

Go to Piken's. Take the henchmen. Fight the Charr Stalkers. Watch everyone except for Stefan run back 20 feet then return each time they take an Ignited arrow.

Whosaidwhatnow · Nov 11, 2005, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And haven't you felt just a tiny bit cheesy when you cast an AoE Spell like Fire Storm, knowing it that the monsters were going to stand there like lumps, taking it until they died?

Not really, since left to their own devices, those mobs would slaughter us. They are all higher level, with higher damage output, more HP, they greatly outnumber us, the only viable way to get through FoW and not pull an all-nighter was to nuke the living hell out of those swarms. Sure we can still get through, but its going to be an inch-by-inch process, and frankly, to someone thats played those quests/missions inside out and backwards, I have no desire to creep through FoW at a snails pace. That isn't interesting, that's frustrating. I love this game, but I'm done with PvE. I have no desire to replay the same old missions at a higher level of difficulty. Give me something new, that's interesting. Give us new monsters, some new maps in the arenas (I'm so, so very sick of those same 4-5 maps over and over and over ad nauseum), some new armor merchants with new looks, new weapons, a new area, but please don't put the same cold meal in front of us and tell us its different and challenging because we have to cut our steak with a plastic spoon.

I'll keep playing PvP until I get bored of that too, and move onto greener pastures. No worries to you, for now... but when I quit and pass the word along to 5 friends not to touch this game, and they tell their friends... I'm sure you see the pattern. GW caught on from word of mouth and recommendation as much as it ever did from advertising or good reviews, and the same will be true of its demise. I convinced 5 people to buy this game, and between us we'll convince 25 people not to bother. The MMO market is getting really competitive, and a bad reputation spreads like an STD on a college campus in this age of information. Am I making threats? No, I'm predicting what I think will happen. You won't lose any monthly fees, since they don't exist, but you will probably lose a lot of business from potential customers and dedicated players buying a second account.

I'm not just a whiney brat, crying because you took away my toys. Nerfing my nuker isn't what I'm worried about, as I rarely even PvE anymore. I'm worried about the larger implications of ANet making huge game changes that affect the entire community without asking anyone's opinion but their fellow designers/developers. I'm worried about this becoming another Ultima Online, where the devs pander to the needs of the loud minority until their game is a shell of what it was, and it dies a slow, ugly death.

Rebuilding is not a problem for a lot of us, but for a new player who only has 5-10 hours a week, or less, to play, someone who has spent all his money and skill points building his character towards fire, you're basically telling this guy "too bad, start over". Am I exaggerating? I don't think so. Almost every good fire spell is AoE. Not just the Big Two, but fireball, phoenix, lava font, etc. If I'd spent all my time building this character and you pulled the rug out from under me, I'd be gone before you could say "oh, snap!"

I think guaging the community's reaction before you implement these huge changes might be a better strategy next time.

Thanks for coming here and getting involved in the discussion though, I'm glad to see someone with a pulse representing.

Grammar · Nov 11, 2005, 08:51 AM // 08:51

"i guess running is much easier for people through lonars pass->droknars forge, just chuck on balthazars aura and watch the mobs scatter lol, "clear the way i got AOE on me" haha"

LOL!!!! You're right!

Does that actually work? Anyone try it yet?

"Zealot's Fire is cheaper.

Cast it with a 20% enchant mod and just heal yourself when bad guys get close..."

Better yet! EVERYBODY with monk abilities should be able to run anywhere now.

Sunman222 · Nov 11, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

speaking of games logs, yes, i suggest reading them for the day of this patch. tons of people saying "lets go play WoW", and the others simply flaming ANet. well deserved in my opinion. you can push these rediculous, so called "tested updates" on us. but people aren't dumb, they WILL eventually quit. if there's two things i've learned from marketing that strictly applies in this situation, its this:

1. people who have bad experiences with a product/service are likely to tell 10 others (negative word-of-mouth or buzz marketing)

2. it is far easier to keep customers then market to new ones.

with that said, in the current state and it the history of guild wars so far, don't be shocked if chapter 2 sales aren't what you expect.

Shaquira · Nov 11, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokendaylite

my ele in presearing is worthless....fire ball makes them run. firestorm makes them run. the only thing saving me is that earlier i got some mesmer skills. again....GOOD JOB ANET for scewing eles and farmers OVER!

You are making this up .... presearing ele's don't even have fireball.

Besides in pre-searing a fire ele owns in the ice area on flare alone.

Get your facts straight before you complain.

One of my mains is an ele too and although this makes me adapt, i can understand the reasoning behind this change.

One other thing ... the fix isn't final ... i am convinced they will fix things like breaking aggro. And i am sure they can now improve drops and buff some fire spells or make them cheaper to use.

Right now i think the fix is not yet working as intended so expect some fices to that

Shaquira

internetguy · Nov 11, 2005, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Monsters can detect AoE now. What is next? Monsters can detect pain, when you hit them, they will run away. This should be very 'Realistic", lol

Princess Nica · Nov 11, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02

great update ^^~~

Now when mobbed by a bunch of melee mobs just cast an aoe.. they spend more time running than fighting. Or see an avicara fierce just use fireball or something and it will go away to the horizon.

I just farmed Griffs and minos. it seems that SoJ doesn't make the mobs run like idiots. just archane echo it and cast balth aura while its cooling down..

Just did THK, its alot easier. Every time we had an issue just cast an aoe and the mobs will do more running than firghting.

I can see builds taking advantage of this

MeniaX · Nov 11, 2005, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I have to think that they did this far too quickly...if it's not "fixed" yet, then why'd they implement it so fast? If they supposedly tested it out, then they would have already known about all of the side effects. Either one of the Anet reps need to say flat out "this is how we intended it to work, there are no bugs," or they need to take it out to finish fixing it. To make us have to deal with their bugs because they get hasty is just a bit much.

A side note...if they want farmers out of high areas such as UW...then why not implement a group requirement of like 4/5 people in group rather than take away our AoE spells?

Batou of Nine · Nov 11, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSaber

I was waiting to hear some official word from Anet about this update before I came out of lurking, and wow...

I don't mean to offend but my jaw dropped when you said these are tested changes. The monsters and henchmen now have the exact opposite problem they used to have. Instead of standing in a firestorm and dying, they run for the hills at the first sign of splash damage. Improving AI would get them to step out of things like firestorm, maelstrom, etc. Not make them run nearly out of sight because they were hit by a fireball. While skill capping in the Frozen Forest, I kept 90% of the enemies at bay by just alternating between fireball and phoenix. I saw an Avicara Fierce setting up to bombard me, one fireball and he's off to the horizon, with my warrior henchmen in pursuit. A pinesoul turned his attention to me, one phoenix and he starts running in circles. Then a Siege Golem got off a deep freeze. My henchmen all slowly tried to run away, getting cut to pieces since they wouldn't fight back. Then after going to fight some ice imps, my caster henchmen actually ran into a maelstrom instead of out of it. I honestly can not see how all this can be seen as an improvement.

When I first saw the update, I thought, "Hmm, Firestorm and Meteor Shower may be useless now, but I don't use them so what do I care." Then I went to try out the changes and I was shocked. All monsters and henchmen running away at the first sign of damage? They don't even make serious efforts to attack, their highest priority is now to flee.

The AI has gone from one flawed extreme to the other.

This is what we need, GAMEPLAY testing and experiences that people write about. It is obvious that my "big picture" argument from post #325 is being completely overlooked. So Anet needs to at LEAST pay attention to threads like NewSaber's concerning in play stories. As he said, we have now been given a completely new problem to replace the old one.

By now i am fed up; i have been following this thread off and on since it started and cant believe Gaile's comment that it was "tested" and deemed "reasonable and fair". i still dont understand Anet's sense of balance by creating a problem to fix another problem. im clueless. And done with GW. hope yall find some fun outta this game!

EDIT:: Ok, fine i dont quit, but give me another update like this with a lame justification for its implimentation...ya...

Racthoh · Nov 11, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And for those who are concerned (I won't say "whining" but others have

) about farming, why in Dwayna's name do you think you should be able to solo some of the highest level areas to farm? How realistic is that expectation? I mean, if you could in the past -- and if that wasn't intended or balanced -- does that mean it should be left for players to do so indefinitely? No criticism for farmers, not at all. But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.

I can think of a few reasons why, and although I may be flamed for going against you Gaile I feel I still need to say it.

Find me 7 other players at any given time of the day that won't complain when the going gets rough. Find me 7 other people that won't quit after they die, 7 that don't resort to foul language and childish namecalling. Find me those 7 that actually realize this is supposed to be a game about strategy and teamwork. I could think of more qualities that I think would be common among the masses but to be frank you'd be surprised how many lack even just one of them.

I can never find the ideal group, one that is actually fun to play in anymore. Pretty much all I have left to do is the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe, and those areas are no fun unless I'm with my guild. In the Underworld we get those solo monks still, and the painful process of forming a group that can take upwards of an hour is completely ruined. In the Fissure of Woe, this damn book trick that everyone abuses. I am looking for a challenge, and that stupid thing takes it completely away. Why didn't you fix THAT if you were looking to increase the difficulty for the PvE community? How in Dwaynas eyes are the monsters foolish enough to attack a single enemy because he has a book in hand and can't do anything but stand there! How is acceptable to hold a gear and type /dance AND be considered the most valid member of the party! Where is the logic behind it?

Thus, I resort to the solo play, to receive tranquility. I can't even go around with the local chat on anymore as a direct result of this patch. The number of players in every district of every camp complaining that they can't play, and like children they squabble amongst each other. More so than ever, it will be even harder to find good groups because this complaining will never cease. The only challenge I can seek anymore comes from the self-satisfaction that I can achieve something that everyone else would rather complain about than figure out on their own.

Bad enough if not in the game, than on these forums. See for yourself that this change has erupted in pages of responses, the vast majority are players of your game who are throughly displeased. Only a few actually make valid points that were worth giving the time to consider and discuss.

I have three methods of farming left... just three where I can disregard the pressures of college and escape. How long do I have until these final three are discovered and these portions of joy are gone I ask.

lyra_song · Nov 11, 2005, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Nica

great update ^^~~

Now when mobbed by a bunch of melee mobs just cast an aoe.. they spend more time running than fighting. Or see an avicara fierce just use fireball or something and it will go away to the horizon.

I just farmed Griffs and minos. it seems that SoJ doesn't make the mobs run like idiots. just archane echo it and cast balth aura while its cooling down..

Just did THK, its alot easier. Every time we had an issue just cast an aoe and the mobs will do more running than firghting.

I can see builds taking advantage of this

Its not too hard to adapt, see? Farmers will farm and life goes on. But thats not my concern. Its this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I seriously dont see the improved AI, all I see are more holes to exploit.

The bad guys just got stupider (as some of you have shown some fun new tricks to play on their dull intelligence).

RTSFirebat · Nov 11, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

I for one have to say while it will make PvE a bit harder I'm kind of pleased with the changes.

Now farming groups will have to (Hopefully) give other classes like Rangers, Necro and Mesmers a chance. For too long I (Me personally) has been forced to farm alone, unable to join the farming groups of the FoW or down SF! And why? Because I'm a Ranger... will the tables have turned.

Besides like it or not it kind of makes sense, why do mobs just stand there and die in AoE spells... people in PvP move... so why shouldn't mods?

And for those complaning... well look at the solo monk... people will change their builds.... find ways around the changes... traps anyone? Yes that another thing we Rangers do

But in anycase the solo monk build was nerfed, but people made changes and are still using it.

Play, learn, adapt and try again...

twicky_kid · Nov 11, 2005, 09:12 AM // 09:12

well.......we can have another 18!! pages of crap posted or you can give some input on things you do like about and things you don't. all i have heard so far is farmers.

PRO

1. req more teamwork and balanced groups

2. henches no longer stand in aoe dmg

3. bots are destroyed!!!!

4. will accually have an economy based on more than 3 items.

5. possibility of drops increasing now that teams are req

6. made pve harder

CON

1. 1 shot aoe spells cause foes to flee even before they are cast

2. some prices will jump until auction house is implemented

3. harder to make money for lower end players

4. running is now going to be even more overcrowed than before

5. henches AI is just like the pets now but worse. they now copy everything you do. soon as you stop attacking and move they stop attacking and follow you. when they are hit by aoe dmg they run around like chickens doing NOTHING.

suggestion

1. trigger "flee" after aoe with duration have been cast. 1 shot aoe should not be detected.

2. improve drops to counter act the drop in solo farming. make the drops based on how many people are in party. more people more drops.

3. turn hench AI back to normal attack called target until dead. only flee vs a threating aoe spell like meteor shower. they spend all their time fleeing they never attack in current state.

RTSFirebat · Nov 11, 2005, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

well.......we can have another 18!! pages of crap posted or you can give some input on things you do like about and things you don't. all i have heard so far is farmers.

Please don't troll and call it all posts crap, same can be said about yours. There is plenty of good input in this thread. I read most of it before posting my own comments above.

Keep it carm now.

Order Of Thy Sword · Nov 11, 2005, 09:14 AM // 09:14

May I ask why my post, which was well written, mature and addressed key issues with botters and known organized gold rings was deleted?

X Bound X · Nov 11, 2005, 09:15 AM // 09:15

This update makes pve, which is the reason why I purchased Guild Wars, un-enjoyable for me.

I do not like pvp play, and when I purchased this game it was with the understanding that I was buying a game that offers both as seperate gametypes.

Seperate being the keyword.

Its just not fun for me anymore...

Magicmaster315 · Nov 11, 2005, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

I for one have to say while it will make PvE a bit harder I'm kind of pleased with the changes.

Now farming groups will have to (Hopefully) give other classes like Rangers, Necro and Mesmers a chance. For too long I (Me personally) has been forced to farm alone, unable to join the farming groups of the FoW or down SF! And why? Because I'm a Ranger... will the tables have turned.

Besides like it or not it kind of makes sense, why do mobs just stand there and die in AoE spells... people in PvP move... so why shouldn't mods?

And for those complaning... well look at the solo monk... people will change their builds.... find ways around the changes... traps anyone? Yes that another thing we Rangers do

But in anycase the solo monk build was nerfed, but people made changes and are still using it.

Play, learn, adapt and try again...

But the question is how long is it before they go after the traps and then the next thing we find to fix it and get around that. If they nerf one class they have to nerf them all in some way and take away something that class dose thats useful. The ele was the undisputed king of AOE which now means nothing. Now what if they make it so the enemys could dodge your arrows or not stupidly run through your traps but avoid them. The fence plays both ways. Whos to say what is next after this.

RTSFirebat · Nov 11, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magicmaster315

But the question is how long is it before they go after the traps and then the next thing we find to fix it and get around that. If they nerf one class they have to nerf them all in some way and take away something that class dose thats useful. The ele was the undisputed king of AOE which now means nothing. Now what if they make it so the enemys could dodge your arrows or not stupidly run through your traps but avoid them. The fence plays both ways. Whos to say what is next after this.

Well till that time I'm going to continue farming with my Ranger... best thing to do is send A.net support messages and let them know your not happy with the patch.

ShinJin Kahn · Nov 11, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

* Traps now only affect a single target

If that happend you'd be the first one posting in this thread.
It's easy to say get over it when it's not your class that got messed up.

Magicmaster315 · Nov 11, 2005, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinJin Kahn

* Traps now only affect a single target

If that happend you'd be the first one posting in this thread.
It's easy to say get over it when it's not your class that got messed up.

Well put my friend well put someone who understands what i mean.